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thanks again peterigz, the link to your star trail effect said page couldnt be found,but yea im looking for program for doing animations for movie intrductions and wanted to be able to do trail effects ///I think you can save in sequence with transparent png files which would work to import them as a movie file ..in anycase i ran across sony studio which im not sure if that what im looking for ..and than ran across corel motion 3d which i think is similar to what im looking for if i can get their particles to do what i need them to do lol and if so .than it would be easier to use than adobe after effects and has more presets in it and cost a lot less